Can we get a checkbox to set it for alliance only rather than having to make all our friends +5? Also is it based off corp standings or alliance standings?

I really do feel you guys at CCP don't play this game anymore ...

No seriously you have all gone mad.

Alliance x launches 300 PCO and locks everyone else out ....... smart move CCP, so much for
a sandbox game.

Great, so now someone who runs PI in a quiet low sec system on a small scale basis is screwed.
Now they have to put up PI structures within said quiet low sec system, with a "blow me up" sign on them.

Small scale low end PI in low sec is now dead for small corps.
Once again, CCP has developed something for the huge alliances, and screwed the little guy.

Through what mechanism?

No information has been presented by Team Pi regarding any search-ability function associated with POCO's

I think they need to be allowed to connect with the team that works on ingame metrics and the MAP to make this change practical, and not a POCO Beta

[quote=CCP Nullarbor]
Sad stuff aside, I've been (sadly) following this thread for entirely too long. I'm still seeing a lot of the same information being posted. If you are considering posting, please tie your comments back to something that's been said previously if you haven't got something altogether different to say. It will make it easier for the information to be digested by the people that actually need to hear what the players have to say.

One thing I don't think anyone else has mentioned (but can't be bothered to read the last 20 pages), is that "100% tax" is far from 100% of market price. It's 12k isk for P3 items (such as robotics, currently 70k market price), and just 180 isk por P2 (such as coolant, uranium, mech parts, currently around 10k on market).

The only exception is P4 items where 100% tax is 1 million isk.

Whats the usual yield (units/day) of those lowsec harvest planets?

2300m3 is not enough. At that rate I would have to export every day to maintain supply to my factory planets. I'm not gonna spend an hour plus a day doing PI. Fork that. 3-5000m3 would be better. Since I currently export 12500, so having a CO/paying tax would be worth it for me. Assuming they were 80% cheaper and not 'exclusive' in low sec ie anyone can use them and pay the tx or not. No outpost/sov DOS bs.

OH yes, I agree that it would make sense to be able to find out remotely if there was already a CO in place, and what the tax rate would be. I think the justification of "I like the exploration aspect of going and finding out" is just lazy programmer-speak for "It would be pretty hard to implement". :)

I'm fluent in lazy programmer-speak :)

ive already started reducing my manufaturing structures, decomissioning 2 large towers, the cost now is not made up by the speed increase of production. im now moving to an station where i can outbuild any of the local compertion and basicly save about 13mil/day on my production costs.

Recap of my post # 785
I spent 114 mil to get started in PI
I spent 65 mil to get re-started once the extractor head changes were made
I am looking at a total of roughly 560mil to get started a 3rd time once this happens

I can bear the costs if the prices go high enough, which under the current scheme they surely will

While I respect your position, I STRONGLY disagree with this...

Primarily because, if ownership information even via direct "Show Info" click is absent, then you exclude the ability of a pilot to potentially seek membership in that corp to conduct their P.I.

Further, even generalizing POCO's from POCO's on advanced planets as being present in system - without numbers or locations is far better than not - And even if it provides a list of targets, then it only lends itself to increased player interaction.

But ultimately, I absolutely disagree with this as EVE has reached a point of complexity where such searchability lends itself to distilling player choice in how they spend their game time. I myself experience this when I might take a day or more just planning and taking steps towards an ingame action; to fly a significant distance just to find nothing is neither intelligent game design nor common sense. We have a Map search function for planets for a reason - or should we regress to scan probes on every planet and give up remote sensing?

A few hundred posts in the thread ago, I calculated that it's about 6 times (from memory, exact number may be different) more expensive tax wise to export a unit of robotics, than it is to export all the processed materials to make a unit of robotics. So the obvious incentive is to import low level materials into the lowest tax planet around and manufacture higher level commodities, most likely in high sec.

Tax rates in high-sec are being increased, however, not nearly as much as you are saying. the increase of 50% is plenty and will still make PI available to newer players (ie a 6% tax will increase to a 9% tax, which isn't a small amount of ISK considering that base PI prices will rise). As a member of EveUni, I think you would know the merit of helping players that have under 3 million skill points make a little bit of extra ISK here and there.

Allowing the POCO owner to set a straight up isk per m3 tax would make more sense. It's makes cost immediately clear to the user, it encourages users to have more complex setups on a planet instead of exporting raws or p1s, and it would encourage people to produce the most profitable products per p3 at a given tier, which is a user demand-driven market driver instead of driving the market based on some weird base tax value CCP creates.

Correction the increase is 'DOUBLE' and therefore 100% ... not half.

Please please consider a new reinforcement model for these. I would love to see them as small gang targets without making them easy prey for supers. What if we gave them some sort of dampening field that limited the damage over time such that they could take at max say 5000 dps over a one minute period of time on average. This would make it a target for a small gang while making a super complete overkill and be no faster. You could then set the hit points to be whatever it needs to be to take X amount of time to kill and or reinforce.

Earlier you were talking about how people would be taking theses down just for the sake of grief play. If that's the case, not having them drop anything is smart move. It ensures that taking these down is not a profitable venture, increasing the chances they will be left up or only taken down by someone with the intent to replace them. To what degree it will be effective is anyone's guess, but the fact that they cut that off in the thought process suggests that yes, they do play this game, to the point that they know exactly what you were thinking.

Also it couldn't have a normal POS-Shield, which has also been discussed here, since you could either fly inside and just shoot the thing directly, or people don't have access so they can't do PI and the thing will lose even more money!

You mention later in your response, income is about 5 mil a week and it would take 4 months to recover investment from a 80m PCO. No one would risk even a T1 BC to keep the PCO operational. Having 1 destroyed would extend payback another 2 months (depending on the BC and fit of course).

I've thought about this for quite some time, I think the best way would be to tie the tax rates to real market prices the same way that insurance payouts are tied to mineral prices.

Not just POS fuels. These are building materials as well. And their importance will increase, not just with the introduction of the player-owned custom office, but also with others. A new item group for Orbital Infrastructure will be created. This will include the new Custom Office, but also the new Orbital Command structure. I expect more structures will appear that can be used to upgrade a solar system. It seems logical to asume that these structures will also require PI materials (and FW/Incursion LP for the BPCs).

I say again the concept is a good one it is just not thought out correctly. as it applies to WH space.

Ugh... my own person experience shows that even the 2000m3 is insufficient. Besides, it's not practical to rely on the command center for storage... they rarely remain connected to the rest of the PI network. Most often, when the resources deplete in one area you move the netowrk aroudn the planet while the command center remains where it was established.

(Also a reason against relying on them for launching... they're not attached or near the PI network.)

Sorry in advance for not reading all 80 pages of this post.

What is the proposed skill level of Anchoring required to drop a Customs Office?

Choice? You ever do PI before? It's not a choice, it's a necessity. Unless you're running some scrawny-assed mini-network you'll be having to chase the resources around the planet. This will require you to move your network around. I don't know of anyone that puts anything resembling effort into their PI that hasn't had this issue.

This is why the whole "remove all customs offices" will be brutally painful to most PI people, especially in places like wormholes where large scale PI happens and the logistics of moving things in and out can be a real pain.

W-space... no, you're not going to put one up to tax your own people, that's just silly especially when they're likely providing some of the pos fuel you need. Anyone getting carried away like that will cause rifts in the corp with people that once had control of their own PI and now have to deal with corp leadership controlling it to a degree. You're certainly not going to put a POCO up in someone elses hole... that's simply target practice and wasted isk.

So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

The simple fact of the matter is that PI was from the start of intended to be for individual players and after this... It won't be anymore.

Interesting idea. But LO is already used for too many things (POS, cynos, JBs), while it's little brother, heavy water, is only used for POS. It would be better to use that instead, to balance supply and demand a bit.

Of course, RP-wise, it's hard to explain how sending something up from the planet consumes some in-space resource.

Really looking for and awaiting the Dev response to how this will be changed WRT player feedback in this thread.

the POS fuel changes came out roughly 24hrs ago and we've already seen that get fixed into something that is simpler but doesn't nerf faction towers to S***

waiting for the same sort of common sense here? PLS?

It may not have been forgotten or abandoned by the community team or CCP Nullarbor. But CCP Omen is the one who can provide actual design answers, and he stopped replying to this thread 5 hours after it was published.

The contrast with the hybrid and pos fuel threads is striking and it reminds me of CCP's worst times.

Does anyone know if the NPC controlled offices that are destructable have reinforcement timers as well?

HIGH sec tax rate? What on earth? A little overboard? I dont get the logic. Surely that's not expected to be a strong enough motivator for people to shift from high sec? They'll just drop PI when the hassle becomes insufficiently profitable, do something else .